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[00:47:52] how I can get the number of buckets and other details which the main dictionary, or a non-zipmap hash item has? [00:48:39] insin (~insin@host86-148-254-166.range86-148.btcentralplus.com) joined #redis. [00:48:44] kppullin (~kppullin@pdpc/supporter/active/kppullin) joined #redis. [00:49:36] for example the dict.c has _dictPrintStatsHt, but that doesn't seem to be called from anywhere :( [00:51:33] wilmoore (~wilmoore@c-67-190-17-108.hsd1.co.comcast.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 248 seconds [00:52:01] agentzh (~agentz@nginx/adept/agentzh) joined #redis. [00:56:20] martincozzi (~martincoz@c-67-180-194-70.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) left irc: Quit: martincozzi [01:01:03] ambroff (~ambroff@c-24-4-207-161.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) left irc: Quit: ambroff [01:09:27] rittyan (~rittyan@2a02:6b8:0:40c:7aca:39ff:feb3:d779) joined #redis. [01:30:44] thehodge (~thehodge@2001:470:1f09:13a3:8d67:f348:1929:4a34) joined #redis. [01:33:02] nopz___ (~nopz___@8.14.117.35) joined #redis. 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[03:29:44] wmage (~wmage@nat-88-212-40-142.antik.sk) left irc: Read error: Connection timed out [03:29:51] Geffy (~geoffgars@2a02:40:2:0:e9c6:8dc3:dcbd:41b5) left irc: Quit: leaving [03:40:49] jonesy (~jonesy@pool-173-71-115-162.cmdnnj.fios.verizon.net) left irc: Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. [03:41:57] drbobbeaty (~drbobbeat@38.98.137.29) joined #redis. [03:45:38] ron (~ron@unaffiliated/ron) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds [03:47:44] getxsick_ (xsx@tramwaj.asi.pwr.wroc.pl) joined #redis. [03:48:03] getxsick (xsx@unaffiliated/getxsick) left irc: Read error: Operation timed out [03:48:20] Wombert (~Wombert@dslb-088-065-201-187.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #redis. [03:48:37] ron (~ron@unaffiliated/ron) joined #redis. [03:49:00] mbuf (user@nat/redhat/x-bwflrestueamtlou) joined #redis. [03:49:17] is there a way to undefine or unset a value that has been set using SET? [03:49:50] d0k (~d0k@p5B3B1342.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #redis. [03:51:36] wmage (~wmage@nat-88-212-40-142.antik.sk) joined #redis. [03:54:23] never mind, used setex [03:57:12] willpierce (~willp@c-76-103-214-4.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) left irc: Quit: ircII EPIC4-2.10.1 -- Are we there yet? [03:57:39] TimTim (TimTim@cpe-098-026-149-108.triad.res.rr.com) joined #redis. [04:01:26] nu7hatch_ (~cubox@r186-48-237-57.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) joined #redis. [04:01:56] mbuf (user@nat/redhat/x-bwflrestueamtlou) left #redis ("ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"). [04:01:56] TimTim (TimTim@cpe-098-026-149-108.triad.res.rr.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 248 seconds [04:04:37] nu7hatch (~cubox@r186-48-244-75.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) left irc: Ping timeout: 248 seconds [04:04:38] Nick change: nu7hatch_ -> nu7hatch [04:08:45] wmage (~wmage@nat-88-212-40-142.antik.sk) left irc: Read error: Connection timed out [04:09:08] alekx (4e61605a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.97.96.90) joined #redis. [04:10:48] Frippe (~Frippe@unaffiliated/frippe) joined #redis. 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[05:16:00] antirez: I'll be here in 2 minute [05:16:17] alekx: no hurry I'm here for some time [05:20:20] back [05:20:33] antirez: both those "problems" made me think of SLAs [05:21:16] bascially by allowing the client to specify a "timeout" you'd move the switch responsibility to the side in control [05:21:28] key * timeout 10 [05:21:50] would translate to: if I don't get all keys in 10seconds please cut me off [05:22:22] alekx: I'm not sure this solves the real issue here [05:22:33] alekx: when I ask for a big range of objects, I'm ok with using some more time [05:22:38] a client that would know is going to execute an expensive operation would set the timeout accordingly and would be aware of the implications [05:23:09] antirez: how would you formulate the real issue? [05:23:12] alekx: this is impossible from the point of view of the implementaiton [05:23:20] alekx: imagine this: [05:23:32] alekx: I send N different commands, like: LRANGE foo bar TIMEOUT 5 [05:23:41] and in a pipeline many different commands [05:23:45] similar to that, with different timeouts [05:23:59] all the output objects get mixed in the output buffer [05:24:05] there is no way to tell what was transferred and what not [05:24:08] even if, it would be possible [05:24:15] the problem we are trying to solve here is different [05:24:30] for Pub/Sub, is the slow receiver, and there is no way for it to set a timeout [05:24:33] antirez: in the pipeline model the timeout would be set at the pipeline level and not at command level [05:24:50] alekx: there is no "pipeline level". Pipeline != MULTI/EXEC [05:25:02] but, even semantically [05:25:09] it's not correct that the client is forced to set a timeout [05:25:12] antirez: when he subscribes he could provide a timeout [05:25:25] clients don't have control about the network bandwidth [05:25:29] antirez: not force... but has the option to [05:25:42] yes but this opinion is semantically misleading IMHO [05:25:46] because [05:25:55] 1) The client can send a bad TIMEOUT (too long) or not send it at all. [05:26:00] antirez: semantically it is: give me the response in 10 seconds or nothing [05:26:02] and still will make the server crashing [05:26:19] so, what was our goal, that was protecting the server against "bad" clients, is not reached [05:26:20] antirez: but the responsibility is on his side [05:26:31] responsible of crashing the server [05:26:44] antirez: a client could always make the server missbehave [05:26:45] here the point is: avoid that a client that is doing wrong things can crash the server [05:26:52] yes but on purpose [05:27:02] here instead, the client can make the server misbehave without intention [05:27:14] just because it is making too many objects accumulating in the output buffer [05:27:20] antirez: you could have a set of default timeout (configurable) [05:27:20] we need to protect against this [05:27:34] that's bad as well [05:27:47] a client in a slow network is perfectly free to ask 10k objects and read it with some time [05:27:52] the problem is not the time ,but the space taken [05:28:07] antirez: that's Redis internal problem [05:28:15] it's not an application/client problem [05:28:17] yes, but that's issue #93 :) [05:28:25] LOL :) [05:28:37] Redis needs to close clients that have an output buffer getting bigger and bigger [05:28:49] but I think that it is better to don't fix the issue about LRANGE / KEYS / ... [05:29:01] this is hard to fix well, more likely we'll create problems trying to fix that [05:29:08] instead, the Pub/Sub thing is very common [05:29:21] the producer is faster than the consumer…. and booom [05:29:35] also, Pub/Sub is "push" [05:29:44] so the client will receive data without asking with a command [05:29:51] I've discussed this problem a while ago with some experts in the field [05:30:11] and looked at different approaches... you know what the final advise was? [05:30:25] I guess, close connection when N pending messages? [05:30:36] this is an unsolvable problem... move the responsibility to the party that can make the smartest decision [05:31:14] yes, in this respect it is Redis [05:31:16] alternatively [05:31:18] closing a connection with N pending messages is not an "educated decision" [05:31:22] there is to implement flow control [05:31:36] I think so actually [05:31:55] at least if the client is not informed or cannot change that [05:31:56] flow control is what an engineer will call "the right thing". But does not work properly [05:32:11] it means to start advising the publisher that it is publishing too fast [05:32:16] I think I've lost you re: flow contorl [05:32:38] flow control is a way to add in the protocol informations that the different parties can use to auto-regulate the flow [05:32:41] so [05:32:42] I don't think I agree [05:32:47] rittyan (~rittyan@2a02:6b8:0:40c:7aca:39ff:feb3:d779) left irc: Remote host closed the connection [05:32:50] the receiver will start getting messages like" you are too slow" [05:32:56] there's not a too fast publisher... it's just a slow subscriber [05:32:59] the publisher will start getting messages like "you are publishing too fast" [05:33:20] ok but how would you solve the issue? [05:33:25] there are only two solutions: [05:33:28] 1) create less messages or. [05:33:34] 2) enlarge the queue [05:33:46] 1) you cannot create less messages [05:33:48] but "2" is bad as not just memory is consumed, also delay is added [05:33:52] or I'm missing something [05:34:23] alekx: what you do is to advice the publisher that its messages are not processed fast enough [05:34:31] alekx: it is up to the application to decide WHAT to do [05:34:43] antirez: correct [05:34:55] yes, but I don't like such a "right" approach [05:35:06] IMHO closing the connection is simpler, raw, but better [05:35:20] well... then why not dropping messages [05:35:21] at least from the point of view of Redis Pub/Sub that is fire and forget [05:35:40] alekx: because no one will notice [05:35:46] you notify [05:35:57] this is a form of flow control, then [05:36:03] you have a special response... dropped N messages [05:36:20] yes this is a solution indeed, and is a flow control implemented in a different way [05:36:27] I don't like it personally, but is definitely a solution [05:36:29] but for this to work [05:36:41] you need a networking layer that is also able to "insert" messages before the messages pending [05:36:52] since your control message "you are too slow, messages dropped" [05:36:56] has to jump the current queue [05:36:59] and be transmitted ASAP [05:37:07] Redis can't do that from the point of view of internals btw [05:37:12] (but I would not implement it anyway) [05:37:20] but yes, this was among the solutions we checked [05:37:46] but... [05:37:52] if we were able to insert messages [05:38:07] I would definitely inject a special message before dropping the connection in my current planned solution [05:38:12] "we are exiting since you have a long queue" [05:38:26] otherwise the client will not be able to tell if it is a networking issue, or it is too slow [05:38:27] I understand it is an implementation "issue" but I definitely find it more "friendly" then cutting a client off [05:38:57] agreed, but this would require extreme modifications in the Redis internals [05:39:04] not something we can do now unfortunately [05:39:06] antirez: I confess I don't like at all the idea of cutting off a client connection [05:39:20] on the other hand I do understand what you are saying [05:39:46] it is the kind of problem where good solutions are complex and require even that the participants are able to handle the control messages you send [05:39:52] so we can start with this hard solution [05:39:55] well I guess the ideal would be a solution that uses all these strategies [05:39:58] and see what users report... [05:40:04] but it might be an overkill implementation wise [05:40:19] btw fixing this in this way also fixes half of the problem [05:40:33] because with Pub/Sub we are ok, no slow receiver can cause out of memory [05:40:42] but then there is LPUSH/BLPOP side of the matter [05:40:44] Resque & Co [05:40:59] in this case, we can't close connections or alike, data goes into a list [05:41:15] but [05:41:22] at least… LPUSH will return the current list length [05:41:34] so it is a form of basic message the "publisher" receives [05:42:01] nsalvo (~nsalvo@190.55.32.117) joined #redis. [05:42:12] this might not make a lot of sense... but let me throw it out [05:42:18] memory being the issue here [05:42:53] what if these slow processing clients are penalized/slowed down by removing their data from the memory [05:43:32] basically: you are too slow/consuming my messages too slow, I'm spilling these over to disk [05:43:58] I'll continue to serve you, but until you don't show me you can consume at a high rate... I'm going to be slow too [05:45:37] alekx: RabbitMQ does this and even more, for Redis we want really a simple solution [05:46:27] antirez: well I guess then simple would mean either dropping messages or closing connection [05:46:37] alekx: yes, I think so... [05:46:45] but it will be a solution particular to this scenario only [05:46:46] what is better is not clear [05:47:04] and I don't think you can make consistent over the 3 different scenarios [05:47:21] if we drop the client [05:47:24] 1) pub/sub; 2) long pipelined commands; 3) BLPOP [05:47:29] with the current PUBLISH semantics we get some info back [05:47:39] since PUBLISH returns the number of clients that (locally) received the message [05:48:08] if we discard the message, we can still return something back [05:48:13] but my concern is, resistance [05:48:14] that is [05:48:24] if a client got blocked for a software error [05:48:28] dropping the connection is much better [05:48:33] it will likely start again [05:48:44] dropping connection instead will cause it to remain blocked forever [05:48:56] antirez: you do not know that [05:49:23] well it is more likely that if we close the connection read() will return 0 and the client will exit [05:49:27] antirez: I could tell you.. what if I'm processing more data on my machine between 2-4am and that's why I'll be slow [05:49:34] but I don't want you to disconnect me [05:49:39] and it is 100% guaranteed that if we just drop messages the receiver will never un block [05:50:07] alekx: the "window" I suggest makes it a bit more flexible, and will not drop your connection in 2 seconds [05:50:17] but will require 10 seconds of going over the limit [05:50:34] this is why I don't want to implement the "close on MAX reached" as other systems implement [05:50:37] basically you are referring yourself at a timeout [05:50:44] server side default timeout [05:50:57] it is not a timeout, it is: [05:51:05] if you are over the MAX for N seconds, then I close you [05:51:16] that is better than: if you reached MAX I close [05:51:26] what we pay is: 10 seconds delay in our reaction [05:51:34] it is definitely better [05:51:37] but what we gain is: avoiding a lot of useless connections cloesd [05:51:38] closed [05:51:46] elcuervo (~elcuervo@r186-48-237-57.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) joined #redis. [05:52:01] and I think what I've suggested would have been even better from a client perspective [05:52:18] let the client tell you how fast to cut it off after the threshold is reached [05:52:55] I can imagine numerous scenarios in which client side processing would vary over time making the client either lag behind or catching up [05:53:14] antirez: so I'd do something like this [05:53:14] I think that since the server is affected (crash) this should not be decided by the client, this is why I disagree [05:53:33] default setting: if you reach MAX I'll cut your connecting in X seconds [05:53:56] but I'm allowing you (the client) to specify your own Y seconds [05:54:06] not good, clients will specify 9999 and the server will crash [05:54:12] we need to protect the server FROM clients :) [05:54:18] the 10 seconds figure is not random [05:54:24] at peak PUBLISH speed, 150k/s [05:54:30] it means 1500000 messages [05:54:42] that are a few hundreds of megabytes [05:54:47] more than this is too much [05:55:08] it is a random number as it depends on what that machine is doing and its hw [05:55:36] no I mean: with 10 seconds you have a max amount of memory you can use for misbehaving clients [05:55:42] if I have a 64GB machine I might not care about 1G [05:55:46] if the client tells you the timeout, you don't have any guarantee [05:55:56] alekx: then we should make the "10 seconds" configurable [05:56:01] but server side anyway [05:56:27] antirez: that's better already [05:56:28] :D [05:56:45] the problem is that there were discussions in the mailing list about exposing two config options to the users [05:56:55] for the user the concept of "close if MAX is reached" is much simpler [05:57:02] lemme grab a coffee and reanalyze my arguments [05:57:08] ;) [05:57:14] I'm going back coding now [05:57:20] but please if you want send a message in the ML [05:57:25] to contribute to the discussion [05:57:30] I'll wait a few days before implementing this [05:57:39] it is not clear what is going to be the best solution, currently [05:57:44] so it's not a closed deal [05:57:45] :) [05:57:46] it's easier to exchange ideas live... as I can get feedback righ away [05:57:50] later! And thanks for the ideas [05:58:00] we could do another session tomorrow [05:58:06] take care! [05:58:15] ok :) Ciao [06:00:30] superjudge (~superjudg@195.22.80.141) joined #redis. [06:10:10] seppo0010 (~Adium@200.69.194.105) joined #redis. [06:11:21] arnee (~arnee@a89-183-23-88.net-htp.de) joined #redis. [06:12:04] napperjabber (~napperjab@149.48.161.10) joined #redis. [06:16:47] seppo0010 (~Adium@200.69.194.105) left #redis. [06:18:06] rittyan (~rittyan@2a02:6b8:0:40c:7aca:39ff:feb3:d779) joined #redis. [06:19:04] solaries_ (~solaries@ppp-188-174-0-167.dynamic.mnet-online.de) joined #redis. [06:20:39] rittyan (~rittyan@2a02:6b8:0:40c:7aca:39ff:feb3:d779) left irc: Remote host closed the connection [06:20:53] jonesy (~jonesy@68.64.144.221) joined #redis. [06:22:01] Sarevok (~locke@rrcs-98-101-176-143.midsouth.biz.rr.com) joined #redis. 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[12:08:21] napperjabber (~napperjab@149.48.161.10) left irc: Ping timeout: 248 seconds [12:08:22] Nick change: napperjabber_ -> napperjabber [12:12:16] arek_deepinit (~arek@esposa.patyk.net.pl) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer [12:20:49] __alex (~alex@g225249111.adsl.alicedsl.de) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds [12:21:48] mcginleyr1 (~mcginleyr@pool-173-49-55-119.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) joined #redis. [12:22:31] drbobbeaty (~drbobbeat@38.98.137.29) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer [12:22:37] drbobbeaty (~drbobbeat@38.98.137.29) joined #redis. [12:23:43] Hey all, is there a good link to a page on memory costs for the different data structures in redis. I need to spec out memory requirements for a project [12:23:43] drbobbeaty (~drbobbeat@38.98.137.29) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer [12:23:48] drbobbeaty_ (~drbobbeat@38.98.137.29) joined #redis. 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[20:01:04] deepthawtz (~deepthawt@c-71-202-101-2.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) left irc: Quit: Leaving... [20:02:29] deepthawtz (~deepthawt@c-71-202-101-2.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #redis. [20:02:48] kushal (~kdas@fedora/kushal) joined #redis. [20:03:32] martincozzi (~martincoz@c-67-180-194-70.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) left irc: Quit: martincozzi [20:09:42] agentzh (~agentz@nginx/adept/agentzh) joined #redis. [20:10:04] martincozzi (~martincoz@c-67-180-194-70.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #redis. [20:11:09] martincozzi (~martincoz@c-67-180-194-70.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) left irc: Client Quit [20:11:36] kushal (~kdas@fedora/kushal) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds [20:19:34] macabre (~macabre@cpe-66-69-218-227.austin.res.rr.com) left irc: Remote host closed the connection [20:25:24] kushal (~kdas@fedora/kushal) joined #redis. [20:31:29] soveran (~soveran@186.19.214.247) left irc: Remote host closed the connection [20:31:58] martincozzi (~martincoz@c-67-180-194-70.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #redis. [20:36:18] verandor (1f138027@gateway/web/freenode/ip.31.19.128.39) joined #redis. [20:38:57] martincozzi (~martincoz@c-67-180-194-70.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) left irc: Quit: martincozzi [20:42:04] S2kx (~S1kx@ip-95-223-80-198.unitymediagroup.de) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer [20:42:05] S1kx (~S1kx@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/s1kx) joined #redis. [20:43:42] hello.. has someone experience with redis+php+greatTextValues? it seems that the insert rate drops if the value is greater than (round about) 8000 bytes.. is someone else facing this problem? [20:49:13] _macro (~Neil@c-71-204-169-22.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #redis. [20:49:29] arek_deepinit (~arek@esposa.patyk.net.pl) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds [20:50:33] ncode (~ncode@unaffiliated/ncode) left irc: Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. [20:59:30] martincozzi (~martincoz@c-67-180-194-70.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #redis. 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[23:35:47] solaries1 (~solaries@ppp-93-104-166-129.dynamic.mnet-online.de) joined #redis. [23:36:34] X99 (~quassel@218.77.14.195) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer [23:40:34] Jrz (~jrz@d152222.upc-d.chello.nl) joined #redis. [23:45:56] __alex (~alex@g231176203.adsl.alicedsl.de) joined #redis. [23:52:03] NetRoY (~NetRoY@nat/yahoo/x-crvbiucqusojbzma) joined #redis. [23:52:41] nicholasf (~nicholasf@ppp196-159.static.internode.on.net) left irc: Remote host closed the connection [23:53:40] nicholasf (~nicholasf@ppp196-159.static.internode.on.net) joined #redis. [23:56:05] Jrz (~jrz@d152222.upc-d.chello.nl) left irc: Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. [00:00:00] --- Fri Dec 23 2011